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 Mercury Removal - But No replacement 
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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:30 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Huncoat, Lancashire
Altitude: 177
Weather Station: Manual
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This mercury thermometer business is appalling and the Met Office attitude contemptuous.
Clearly they do not regard the same things as important as we observers, their focus is disgusting.
I can fully understand why members are inclined to cease cooperation with them. I did many years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:26 pm 
Senior Climatologist

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:18 pm
Posts: 886
Location: Scotby
Altitude: 31
Weather Station: Davis VV
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Quote: wonder if the dye (?) in the alcohol affects the temperature?

Surely, even if it does the thermometer should be calibrated to take account of the effect?

Anne


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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:20 pm
Posts: 2116
Location: Bolton le Sands
Altitude: 10
Weather Station: Labjack
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I have been using all sorts of different instruments for many years and thus can compare them to the Met Office mercury ones a mixture of Casella and Zeal manufacturers. I obtained some genuine, ex Met office thermometers some years back and I have found a number of things. The most important is that the maximum thermometer is reading about 0.6 C higher than it should when compared to the standard thermometer. Clearly the electronic ones respond more quickly than the mercury oens and thus values differ, sometimes quite markedly. On good, 'ordinary' days they mercury is around 0.2 C higher than the electronic one in the screen. The unit I have in the little pile of plates screen (Casella PTD sensor) can read around 0.3 C higher. Thus I am often left with a choice of three values to call the temperature. I currently take the view that I use the one from the mercury thermometer. That is yet another reason why I am confused as to what is best to do for long term use. For now I will carry on with the mercury results as long as I can, but at least I will have a number of years of crossover should anyone want to see the data here, for comparison. Therein lies another problem. No one wants the data when I die, so in essence it is not very important except to me. Nowadays I sue it primarily for guiding my drone flying rather than anything else, but all of that is another story.
Hello Roy. I know exactly what you mean, but in a different context. The Met Office have been downgrading human contributions for many years and this is just another example. I remember decades ago when I worked for them as an observer it was the view then that all the humans were good for was feeding the beast of the computer. Now there are automatic stations it seems that even that role is being taken away from them. I am a great believer in human observations becasue they can see more and make intelligent judgements about what they see. Where will it all end?

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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Maulds Meaburn, Cumbria
Altitude: 183
Weather Station: Davis VPro2
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MM
Had the Vaisala fitted yesterday - time will tell as to what I think about it.
Tomorrow the wife (deputy observer) will have her first lesson - what will she think?

Looked for the Min' temp as well and that was 0.1c below the thermom'.

But basically you should not have to go looking for the max temp.
Battery life is crap - are the paying for our electric to charge them up ....NO

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Darren Rogers - he who submits the most interesting posts, AKA Mr Data
Maulds Meaburn


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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:01 pm 
Chief Area Forecaster
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:25 pm
Posts: 5572
Location: Drumburgh
Altitude: 7m
Weather Station: Davis VP2
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Had my Vaisala installed yesterday too.

I really like it, the temps all agree with screen to within 0.1c, only downside is the battery change over ''every 2 weeks''
depending on temperature. This time of year you probably need to change at that frequency, summer with warmer temps you
might be looking at 4 weeks. The unit should have an indicator to show when the battery is running low, alas it hasn't.
Not good, in the literature it says if the battery runs out (drains) it's ruined. As for cost of recharging the battery, no idea,
but surely the Met O should compensate us say £100 annually :D

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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Maulds Meaburn, Cumbria
Altitude: 183
Weather Station: Davis VPro2
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Carl - glad you like it and agree re the compensation.

I don't do it to make money and I accept that my 'hobby/interest' has costs associated with it, but ....

I'm sure the Vaisala will be fine - but why aren't they using it for the Min' as well - albeit when it is blowing a gale and lashing down with rain and I'm tying to scroll along to find the Max' temp' I might be glad that I then don't have to do likewise for the Min'.

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Maulds Meaburn


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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Maulds Meaburn, Cumbria
Altitude: 183
Weather Station: Davis VPro2
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Following e-mail was sent to the Met'O today:

Matt – it was good to meet you the other day and I hope that you weren’t delayed too much.
Re the new Vaisala, there were a couple of points that had been going round in my head – but when I have given my more than competent deputy observer her lesson this morning, she has raised the same points to me and hence the reason for this e-mail.
Whilst I don’t mind the Vaisala – there really must be a better way, but those points:
• When reading thermoms the process is immediate
• With the Vaisala you have to ‘find’ the Max’ temperature – now when it is freezing cold or blowing a gale and pissing it down we have to stand there and go through the process of finding a max’. If the scenario is that in the last 24hrs the max’ could have been recorded at two separate times, for example 6hrs apart – then the process becomes even more onerous (in the rain and wind)
• Who pays for the electric for charging the batteries at least 26 times a year? The weather, et al is a major interest of mine and not just a hobby and like all interests I accept that there are associated costs and therefore I am happy to spend various amounts, but for the Met’O to not even cover this point is, not to even mention it, is, I think, unacceptable.

Like I say, the unit is Ok, but I am a yet to be convinced traditionalist and the very simple point is one I made above ... there has to be a better way.
Could you please also feed my thoughts back to the powers that be as well – many thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Maulds Meaburn, Cumbria
Altitude: 183
Weather Station: Davis VPro2
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And another thing!
What about the occasions when the temp' remains constant all day, say within a range of 1-2c and you are scrolling through the 3hr screen and then the 20 min screen trying to find the Max' - a phaff and i'll bet that on those days it is blowing a gale and chucking it down ...... there has to be a better way

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Darren Rogers - he who submits the most interesting posts, AKA Mr Data
Maulds Meaburn


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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:22 pm
Posts: 1988
Location: Isel valley, Northern Lakes
Altitude: 140m
Weather Station: Manual
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you have to find the max temp?!?!?!?!

why on earth doesnt it just have a max / min / current like nearly ALL digital thermometers? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mercury Removal - But No replacement
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:23 am 
Professor
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:52 pm
Posts: 7820
Location: Brampton
Altitude: 117m
Weather Station: Davis VP2
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Battery failure

It lasted 12 days this time. My backup battery didnt work, so I have no Max temp for yesterday. Replacement fitted but data stopped around 10am yesterday prior to milder weather kicking in.

Backup battery brought down is fully charged, so something wrong with connections or wiring ?

These batteries are heavy and I have good 300 yard walk to the weather station, plus charging. I think we need £1000 compensation a year.

Sadly in realty I guess charging the battery is just a few pence, but these constant failures is a nuisance. They must get something that alerts you to a low battery as a matter or urgency.

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Brampton. 117m ASL.
http://www.bramptonweather.co.uk
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