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 22 - 23rd November 2017 
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 Post subject: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:14 am 
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Location: Bolton le Sands
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I see that teh Met Office are sticking to the lilne of aroun d 43 mm of rain causing the local floods here, around half of my total. It seems inconsistent with the amount of water in circulation, for example in Galgate, a mile or so from Lancaster Uni weather station which values they are using. Has anyone any thoughts as to why there is such a discrpeancy, apart from my lack of ability to emasure things accurately? My values were broadly agreed upon with the two recording raingauges I have here, so i guess that my accuracy is not too far of the mark.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:10 am 
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Ask Paul about Met'O inaccuracies with sunshine totals for Cumbria and you'll get the idea.

Its a bit like the rainfall anomaly maps for Cumbria this October - they are inaccurate when produced because they don't have all the data from all the sites (EA, etc) at the point that they produce the map - so they just use what they ahve

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:13 am 
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Indeed, I know what you mean. When i worked for them as an observer it was full of them. I had just hoped things had imporved by now.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:30 pm
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Location: Huncoat, Lancashire
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So what do members think was the definitive rainfall amount that caused the flooding?
The River Condor seems to come from the Quernmore area in the north west Bowland Fells.
Here at Huncoat near Burnley I recorded 29.7mm on 20th, 17.3mm on the 21st and 28.8 on the 22nd, a total of 75.8.
That is not record breaking for my station over 3 days and shouldn't in itself cause floods.
The local press quote 73.6 at Hazelrigg and 89.0 at Shap in the 24 hours Wednesday 22nd.
I heard one tv report that 177mm had fallen. Did I hear correctly? Where would that be?
Officials claim that lack of drain maintenance had not caused the flooding. I'm not so sure?


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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Roy - 'tis a good question.
Baring in mind that 1-19th Nov' had been dry, what we had really shouldn't have caused the few issues it did.

Drainage - yes
Soil compaction - yes

But then The Sands at Appleby flooded and Appleby is relatively close to the source of its river (Eden).
There was some rain in the days preceding the 22nd and what fell on the 22nd was relatively short duration, although Appleby did not flood until after midnight.

Really, what we had should only have resulted in localised surface water flooding and not by rivers over topping, unless like Appleby you are close to the source of the river

As for rainfall totals - who knows?
Those high totals will be mountain gauges under control of the EA, but to who's data the Met'O have access.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:25 am 
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The Hazelrigg value is certainly more in keeping with my own results of 70.4 for the 23rd and 22.7 for the 22nd. It does seem as though there was a 'hotspot' of rain around Lancaster. Yes poor drain maintenance, poor road maintenance and design and a number of other factors will have contributed to the problem, but for me the biggest one was too much rain. The value recorded at the ob on the 23rd was the second highest in my records (dating back to 1992), the other being in July 2014 which appears to have been convective in origin. Thus the 70.4 is the highest total for frontal rain in my records.
Whilst I am not an official observer and thus my values bear no substance the one at Hazelrigg should do. Might make for an interesting paper if someone was keen.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:31 am 
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I have found this interesting chart on twitter from Dr Ed Henderson


Attachments:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 112.18 KiB | Viewed 166 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:49 am 
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That was very clever of you. Where didd you find that one? Certainly shows that my values are essentially the same as Hazelrigg as I also had rain for around 15 hours too.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:30 pm 
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embayweather wrote:
That was very clever of you. Where didd you find that one? Certainly shows that my values are essentially the same as Hazelrigg as I also had rain for around 15 hours too.


I found the chart on Twitter - very useful source of info ( sometimes )

I have sent a message to Hazelrigg asking for their readings but no reply as yet. In theory they should be on WOW, so may be able to find the data on there - will give it a go later

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http://www.bramptonweather.co.uk
Imagehttps://twitter.com/#!/pacrabtree


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 Post subject: Re: 22 - 23rd November 2017
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Location: Brampton
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OK - just spend a good while interrogating WOW - what an awful site it is !!

Anyway Hazelrigg

The readings are shown as date entered - so need to fall back the rainfall I think

20th - 10.4mm
21st - 12.2mm
22nd - 21.5mm
23rd - 73.6mm

There are no readings after the 23rd as far as I can see

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Paul C
Brampton. 117m ASL.
http://www.bramptonweather.co.uk
Imagehttps://twitter.com/#!/pacrabtree


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